In Part 2 of our interview with leading podcaster Sarah Grynberg – also the author of new book Living A Life of Greatness: Steps to a Fulfilling Existence – we discuss the power of saying no, challenging perfectionism, rewriting our stories, and the importance of really listening
So I wrote a story recently on the power of saying no. Is that something you’ve practised and become better at?
Absolutely. I used to do every speaking gig that I was asked to, but some of them just weren’t suited to me. I talked to author Mark Manson about this on my podcast. He said something like, if you do something and they’re paying you well but it’s not fun, start to say no to those things if you can [financially], and do things that bring you joy.
Something I always say is ‘be a person of your word’. If someone asks you to do something, and you want to say no, that’s completely okay. It’s worse if you say yes and don’t deliver and the other person thinks you’re so rude. So I’m always very conscious of lining up my words and actions, and living in integrity. That means it’s absolutely okay to say no. And you know what? Most people are fine with that and won’t even ask why.
I’ve written about topics that seem to intertwine: struggling to say no, being a people pleaser, the inner critic, perfectionism, and not feeling good enough. Have you noticed a connection between those things?
I think all those things are part of negative belief systems that a lot of us might have, but that can be changed. We’re our own worst critics. So if we’re perfectionists, it’s easy to be critical, but we have to give ourselves grace, and know that no one is perfect.
The feeling of being not enough, or not good enough, crops up for many people, right?
It does. But what if someone could notice that as just a thought? A belief is just a thought. You have the ability to change your perception of yourself. It can be as simple as changing the way you’re looking at a situation. And when we realise that, it gives us agency.
It’s challenging if that ‘not good enough’ belief is rooted in our childhoods.
Yes, adults can have wounds from their childhood that they carry on, so I think it’s understanding that and ensuring we don’t do that to our children.
There’s an anecdote in your book, about dealing with ongoing unhelpful thinking, which notes that we’ve got 60,000 thoughts a day, 90% of them are repetitive, and as little as 4% of our worries will take shape.
And about 80% that are negative. That’s why this whole idea of conscious awareness is so critical. If you’re thinking ‘I need to hand this piece of work in, but it’s not very good’, it’s about asking ourselves ‘what is that narrative?’. We need to be conscious of our thoughts – and the words we’re saying to ourselves – before we can change that.
Also, we have the ability to rewrite our story. In the book, I used the example of always being sensitive to the cold and everyone knew me as that person. Like, I know that’s not the biggest problem! But at the same time, I didn’t want that to be my story anymore, and my friend convinced me to go on the ice-bath retreat. By doing what scared me, I came out the other end with a different story.
At your live events, people usually ask if you ever have a bad day – but we all do. right?
Of course I do! When you get into personal-development work, it doesn’t mean all your problems go away, because that’s not life, right? No one can control external factors in life but – when you learn the practises, that I write about – the time it takes to get over something shortens. And you’ve got the tools to deal with other things. A lot of it is noticing how you think. For instance, if you start ruminating night after night, you can learn practises to help stop that.
You also write about the power of listening. Is that skill something you’ve really had to practise?
Absolutely. We have heaps of interactions with people every day, so we can hone the skill, but to foster it we actually have to pay attention. It’s beautiful when you’re really listening, using eye contact etc, because most people just want to be seen and heard. I’ve had beautiful moments when you really look into that person’s eyes and hear about their sadness, or their happy times – it just bonds you with someone.
I think some people aren’t really listening – as in, just waiting for you to stop talking so they can say a certain thing.
Yeah, something some people do is not really listening but thinking about what they’re going to say next. You become aware that they’re not engaged, not listening. It’s so obvious.
I’d always resisted the idea of keeping a gratitude journal, or writing gratitude lists, but reading your section on it, I decided to write a list, and it helped boost my mood.
Yeah there are always some things to write down about what you’re grateful for – even if it’s just gratitude for the roof over your head, the coffee you’re drinking, or a smile from a stranger walking down the street.
You also write about breathwork. I’ve done meditation on and off, and a lot of it is about paying attention to your breath, but I hadn’t done breathwork on its own. So I tried it and it was a good skill to learn.
Great. As I say in the book, when the student is ready, the teacher will come. If something I write about resonates with someone, I hope that person will take that away and practice it. Because if you read a book or listen to a podcast or whatever – and you ‘know it’ but you don’t ‘do it’ – then nothing’s going to change, right?.
It’s hard to fit in those practices, particularly as mothers, but we need to make the time, right?
Yeah, I have two kids, and you have to make the time to do something to help your wellbeing. So, for example, you can choose to wake half an hour earlier to meditate – or get that time back by not scrolling aimlessly on social media.
My husband and I are trying to put down our devices in the evenings – because, doom-scrolling – but also I interviewed a relationship coach who suggested doing that to remove a potential barrier between partners.
Simple things like that do make a difference, but you have to keep doing them, right? Working on yourself, from a personal-development perspective, is something that never stops. It’s not ‘do this one thing and then your life will be changed’. It’s about practises that are nurtured and habits that are built.
You write about how you met a (then) stranger Tom at a café because he noticed the book you were reading – and you met every week for months to talk about personal-development approaches. Could we be more open to conversations with strangers?
Absolutely. In the book, I write about how powerful it’s been for me to connect with strangers especially at retreats. Then we were no longer strangers. I’m a true believer that people are all joined together by love. I also write about ‘finding your people’ – nourishing existing friendships and making new friends. I finished the book with this line: we’re all here to walk each other home.
Check out Part 1 of our story with Sarah Grynberg here, listen to Sarah’s podcast and check out her book here
