This month Global Women announced the appointment of two new life Members and two new Honorary Lifetime Members. At Capsule we were thrilled to speak to three of them – Rt Helen Clark, Dame Theresa Gattung & Dame Ranjna Patel – about the biggest challenges women in NZ are currently facing and what we can actually do as individuals to create change…
While we’ve never had an easy run of it, the last few years have, arguably, been particularly difficult for women.
There have been new fights to have, as well as those on issues we thought had long been put to bed.
Most recently we’ve seen the pay equity rollback (all while the gender pay gap continues to be a significant issue) and those in the Early Childhood Education sector (a predominantly female workforce) rattled by new proposed changes.
Here at Capsule we’ve talked often about the Motherhood Penalty – which in NZ means 43% of women leave work after having children and 60% struggle to re-enter the workforce. We’ve spoken of the challenges for women within the healthcare sector – particularly around birth (just last week we lamented that 1 in 3 births are reported as being traumatic), and perinatal mental health services, with the leading cause of maternal death in NZ being suicide [45%] – our rate, five times higher per capita than that in the UK). Family violence continues to be a massive problem, with police responding to a family violence incident every four minutes in NZ. All the while, many women feel a sense of unease about the rollback of the Roe vs Wade legislation in the US and whether there is a possibility that it may ever happen here.
It can be easy to feel overwhelmed – or even to feel despair at times – but, as wāhine toa, we have faced much larger mountains to overcome in our past. And as Dame Theresa Gattung said in Capsule’s recent chat with her and two other Global Women members, what makes Kiwi women unique and strong is that when it counts, we come together collectively and can make one hell of a difference.
This week, we spoke to Theresa, alongside Dame Ranjna Patel and former Prime Minister, the Right Honourable Helen Clark, about the power we have as individuals to make change, and what issues we really need to come together on.
This exclusive chat came off the back of the wonderful announcement that Theresa and Ranjna have been made Life Members of Global Women, joining a distinguished group of wāhine toa who have paved the way for others through their courage, leadership and tireless advocacy. Helen Clark was also made an Honorary Lifetime Member alongside former Speaker of the House, the Honourable Margaret Wilson, in recognition of their exceptional service to New Zealand and enduring influence as trailblazers for women in leadership.
Global Women is a non-profit organisation that is committed to increasing equity, equality, inclusion and diversity for women in the workplace and society to help stimulate economic growth.
In this conversation, we put three questions to Helen (via email) plus Theresa and Ranjna (over a long Zoom chat, which we’ll bring you more insights from in the coming weeks!).
Here, they discuss the issues concerning women that worry them the most, as well as the power of us as individuals to create change and what we can each do to lift other women up.
What issue concerning women in NZ or globally keeps you up most at night?
Helen: The threat of violence against women, which sadly is a scourge in all societies and speaks to deep seated misogyny.
Theresa: For me, I think it’s the world that young women are facing and coming into. In the coaching and mentoring of young women I’ve done recently, I’ve seen such uncertainty, anxiety and… anxiousness, that’s the word. Anxiousness. I think it’s a little bit related to Covid. I mean, it was all very well for it to be this once-in-a-lifetime thing for us – for it to happen by the time we’re in our late 50s. But if that happens to you and you’re 21? You understand the world is a very uncertain place.
I think, also the rise of social media hasn’t helped, and just the anxiety that can make you feel.
So, I feel most concerned about how young women make it through to fulfil their potential now. That’s what and who I worry about the most.
Ranjna: I think it’s a fair statement, Theresa. I’ve got three children and eight grandchildren – six of them are girls, one’s in fourth year medicine, and the other is in nursing. And the difference I see between my children – the girls, their daughter in laws, and the grandchildren, it’s very, very different.
They’re in professional careers, but they’re still – I think – comparing themselves now far more because of social media. Everyone’s perfect on social media, but, you know they’re certainly not perfect. I’ll point it out quite often when I see these flash-looking stories on Instagram – ‘no, I know her! And she’s going through a rough time, but this is her way of coping with it, so don’t assume everybody’s in a happy place.’
But career-wise I also think there’s a lot of things going on that are positive for young women – and their can-do attitude.
I think the bigger concern is the girls in their 50s wanting to move into more senior roles. I think that seems to be the bigger concern because people are having babies later and their children are growing up, so they have that turmoil of balancing teenagers and corporate jobs – and it’s playing havoc with their brains. I can see that in my children who are in their fifties, they’re trying, with teenage children, to figure it out – how do they work out their careers?
I think anyone in a corporate environment, you end up pitting yourself against the men. And the men can go off for after-work drinks and this and that, whereas the women have more likely got the meals and responsibilities at home. I always say to any corporate person, outsource. Outsource whatever bothers you and what you can afford when you can. Outsource the washing, the ironing, the cleaning, whatever it is and whatever you can. Because when you clear your mind even a little bit, it gives you much more space at work. I think they’re the ones really struggling at the moment, in a man’s world, trying to cope.
And, I think for women of colour, it’s double jeopardy, because if they happen to be migrants and have an accent, people won’t even let them even finish their sentence. It doesn’t matter what diversity of thought they bring to the table, it’s very hard to get it across and be seen. That’s who I worry about the most.
What can we as individuals do to move the needle for women in New Zealand?
Helen: A key issue currently is pay equity. A policy to address it decisively was recently overturned by the current New Zealand Government. This needs urgent attention – we should not accept that women will suffer from ongoing entrenched disadvantage in the labour market.
Theresa: Every person who cares actually needs to really ask themselves that question, because we’re all in a different situation.
Some of us are hiring. We need to make sure that our hiring policies ensure that we have women on our long list, that we have them on our short list and that we consider what bias we’ve got in terms of hiring people. Those people are in those powerful positions and can influence real change.
Those who are less able to influence in that way still can certainly support women – maybe even in just who they choose to buy products from. Who do you buy from? Who do you support? Whose businesses do you support? Do you support women’s businesses? Do you support local in your community? Who are you?
It can come in so many ways – it can be money, it can be time. Do you mentor? What can you do in your community. Ranjna has been an absolute Goliath in terms of what she’s done in her community. And I see that in the foundation that my sister and I run – The Gattung Foundation – that sometimes small things can be incredibly powerful. It doesn’t all have to be major, everybody can do something and collectively we can achieve a lot.
Ranjna: I think it’s about listening and supporting women. Theresa and I both have had surgery, so we’ve been I’ve been cooped up in the house! I was told – which I’ve never done before, apart from during COVID – sit on the settee and don’t move too much! So in the past three months, I’ve been listening.
There’s been so many people that I had put off meeting who would reach out in LinkedIn over the last year. I’ve always said, ‘Yes! We must meet up for a coffee – I’m happy to do that!’ But I never followed through. Now, I had the time and I made the time to say, ‘look, sorry it took me six months, but if you still want to have a coffee, then you can come to my house!’.
Now I’m no professional mentor, but quite often, women having a place just to speak and throw their ideas arounds can help. To just have you listening – really listening – to someone and sometimes pitching in and saying, ‘Well, is that how you’re doing it? In the past I’ve had this experience with doing that…’
I like to act as a sounding board. It’s my way of doing something, which I hope inspires them a bit, or that it removes some of the fuzziness they have in their heads to move forward.
If you could have a quick chat with your 30-year-old self, what would you tell her?
Helen: To build resilience to the inevitable nastiness in politics, which has become more obvious in the social media era. That nastiness has always been there. As women we must build the resilience and strength to withstand the pressures it creates.
Theresa: I would say slow down a bit, because when I was 30 I had no idea… I’m 63 now, and back then I just thought 63 was so old.
I would say to her, you can do everything. You can have a family. You can be a CEO. You can be a successful entrepreneur, but you can’t do it all between breakfast and morning tea. And if you try, your body will, in the end, keep score.
I’ve had burnout twice – in my 20s and in my mid-50s. I’m a very slow learner! I would do whatever I would do – I’d be obsessive. I’d push myself. I think that comes with being the eldest girl of immigrant parents. We were white, yes, but still we were poor. No one had ever gone to university in my family, so the desire to get an education, to achieve and to have financial security was very strong. So it was hard to not push myself – but, it’s important to understand that life is a very long time and you don’t have to achieve everything by the time you’re 40.
Ranjna: I would say to her, don’t let the naysayers wear you down. Because there’s just so many along the way. Don’t let racism kill your drive.
My husband and I – our way of doing business, of doing medicine – was very different. We were not patch-protective with doctors, we shared and put in computers in 1984. We had a footprint of 4,000 people a day in our clinics, so you had so much bias and racism thrown at you daily, which really wore my husband down. How do you teach someone to overcome that? My 30-year-old self is 40 years ago, so I’ve been tolerating it for 40 years.
I also would say, if you have a thought, don’t worry about what other people think of it. If you think it’s good and it’s going to work – just because it doesn’t fit in the little box – give it a try. Failing, doesn’t make you a failure. If you tried it because you thought it was a good idea, that doesn’t make you a failure, you learn something from every new thing you try.
Picture credit: Helen Clark imagery – Jeff Moore/The Elders