Working part-time or flexible hours sounds like the dream to so many Kiwi women – and men. But just how viable an option is it? Will it derail your career? We meet the woman who has created a new ‘Part Time Power List’ that is seriously impressive…
Why are part-time workers often considered less important or less valuable than full-timers, and often excluded from leadership roles or important projects? That’s a question Emma McLean has asked a lot. Her business Works for Everyone is dedicated to ‘smashing the motherhood penalty’ – which, as described by Global Women NZ, is the ‘systematic disadvantages that women encounter in their careers once becoming a mother, including lower pay and being passed up for promotions’.
A professionally certified executive coach who works privately with individuals, Emma also runs workshops within workplaces: her Returning With Confidence Programme for new parents, workshops for people leaders, and another tailored to new dads.
This week, Emma’s first-ever ‘Part-Time Power List’ went live. To give visibility to, normalise and inspire part-time roles, the list profiles 25 nominated New Zealanders who are working part-time across a range of industries – from banking to building. Also a mother of three teenagers, Emma talks to Sarah Lang.
Hi Emma! This Part-Time Power List isn’t about people working flexible hours, right?
That’s right! This is not a list of people working flexibly full-time. This is about people working part-time. It’s about highlighting the challenges and the rewards of reduced hours and reduced pay.
Have you ever worked part-time?
I sure did! It sidelined my career. I was a corporate warrior – working in corporate marketing – but I was also married to a corporate warrior. Then I had three children in five years. Each time that I returned to the workforce, I discovered that my career was being penalised in a way that the father of my children’s [career] wasn’t penalised. As a senior corporate person working part-time, I never got to be in a leadership role. I was relegated to a ‘B team’ that wasn’t working on the things most important to the business. With part-time work, you generally can’t build your career upwards – you’re basically going sideways. When you figure out that’s what’s happening to you, it’s really f**king annoying. I knew I was worth more and capable of so much more. I used to tell myself that I didn’t want to sit on the ‘C-Suite’ [a term used to categorise the most senior executives] but I later realised that that was just a story that I was telling myself. Actually, my career was taken out of my reach. I felt I’d run out of choices to ‘have it all’. I paid the motherhood penalty. This is about the friggin’ system!
It sucks that women still have to deal with this.
Yep. I want to smash the motherhood penalty so our children and their children never have to experience it! Studies show that the motherhood penalty makes up 80% of the gender pay gap. Having more senior leaders working part-time would actually help close that gap, because it would enable women to continue in their careers, rather than changing careers and starting again. Because if a couple who are both well established in their careers have children, and one of them can’t work full-time, it’s easy for that [latter] person to ‘offramp’ themselves from their career and, say, become an interior designer. No shade to interior designers! If someone needs to fulfil the needs of a family, particularly a young family, we need part-time work for people. Like, it’s just maths.
I know various women who say how lucky they are to work part-time.
Yeah. I call it ‘grateful-itis’. One woman I know says there needs to be some ‘give and take’, particularly at a senior level – and also says that, being prorated at 80%, she contributes effectively during the hours she works, but ‘leaves 20% on the table’ and doesn’t feel guilty about that. I’d never heard a woman frame it like that, because most women frame it as ‘I’m so lucky’. That comes from the system.
Tell me about the people on the Part-Time Power List.
There are 25 people – and 24 roles because one’s a job share. They represent a variety of professions and working arrangements including the job share by two PwC Partners, a senior leader at Kiwibank working school hours, a managing partner at a public-relations firm working four days a week, and builder whose role has been shaped into part-time.
There’s a photo of each person, their job title, their employer, and their working arrangement. They describe what working part-time has meant to them, plus share tips around making it work. I want people who want to work part-time to take heart from the Part-Time Power List. Because I figure what you can’t see, you can’t know. We need to share stories because change isn’t happening – and people really want change!
How do we bring about change?
Well, we’ve been through a pandemic with flexible working and now we’re asking everyone to come back to the office as nine-to-fivers. We talk about being an innovative nation, but where’s the innovation around job design? So, I’m trying to be a bit provocative with the Part-Time Power List. I believe part-time jobs can be created even if it’s not easy, for instance for small businesses. But even big companies say ‘oh we couldn’t do that’. Why not? Why can’t there be someone in a senior leadership role who works part-time, like I wanted to?
It’s a waste of talent that so few part-time jobs are advertised.
Yes, generally you have to be a parent returning to a workplace in order to successfully negotiate to work part-time.
Is there sometimes a misconception that part-timers are ‘slacking off’?
Yep! When I was doing part-time roles, I was actually the busiest I’ve ever been.
I like your idea of a ‘wrap’ – like a baby-wearing wrap, except for new parents.
Thanks. It’s like, why are we so surprised that there are no women at the top if we don’t put a care wrap around them when they’re new mothers, in the hardest time of their careers? You’re sleep-deprived, you’re vulnerable, and your relationship can be affected. When I approach businesses, the ‘care wrap’ is really my pitch. I say, ‘what are you doing to support parents returning to work?’. The answer is often ‘nothing’.
Now some employers are getting me to run my Returning With Confidence Programme. I generally do four 90-minute workshops via Zoom, to help people returning from parental leave to identify their confidence and strengths, and to set and manage boundaries. Because people can feel ‘why do I feel really weird at work now?’. What surprised me most about these workshops is the importance of sharing the load at home. The parent returning to the workforce can’t keep doing the majority of the household tasks.
You run a Making Space For Dads workshop too?
Yes, I’ve just started them and I want workplaces to get me in to do them. I want to provide a safe space for new dads. The focus is generally on new mums, and dads can feel left out. Some say ‘what’s my place in all this? How do I do things right?’. So I ask how might an employer support them? I also want to spark some curiosity for new dads about how their lives might need to change. One mum told me, ‘I feel like my world’s been turned upside down. But my husband’s life has barely changed’. I’m not pitting women against men, but we’re all part of a wider, messed-up system. The vast majority of dads don’t feel they can ask for flexible or part-time work. Imagine if men could work part-time and spend more time with their child. It’s a win-win!
You also do ‘leader coaching’?
Yes, because the biggest impact on someone’s return to work is their manager. If that manager hasn’t personally returned to work in this way, it can be hard for them to understand what it’s like. Many of these leaders have so much on their plates, so I help with ideas and plans to welcome the returning person, including those coming back on reduced hours. What help or advocacy might that person need?
How do you do one-on-one coaching?
I tend to do three or four 90-minute sessions. I say, let’s get a plan together. How might you recentre yourself as a new parent who’s also working? If you feel you’re drowning, how can I help you to get more control? I’ve been a working parent myself, so often I’ll take off my coach hat and put on my mentor hat [a mentor gives direction, while a coach inspires person to come up with their own solutions].
So I offer some ideas – for instance, what to say to your people leader. I want parents to know that everything they’re asking for is entirely reasonable, at work and at home. Don’t take a four-day role then work Sundays. Do ask your partner to make sure there are no crumbs on the bench. One woman said ‘I’ve tried to talk to my husband about this but I didn’t address it well enough’. It’s like, what? It’s 2024.
You did a 10-episode podcast last year, How To Smash The Motherhood Penalty. Will there be more?
I want to do another podcast series this year dedicated to dads. I want the podcast, like the list, to be practical, approachable, and relevant.
What’s your ideal vision for the workplace?
I want employers to start conversations about how they can help returning parents. I’d like to help parents returning to the workforce to ask ‘where’s the part-time work? Where are the job-shares? How could that work? Where are the childcare subsidies or even on-site daycare?’. How good would all that be?
So it’s not just about wishing things were different. It’s about doing things that are different. We can’t keep just measuring the outcomes. We have to measure the enablers – things that make it possible for a particular thing to happen. I think the Part-Time Power List can be an enabler. I’d love for people to share it on LinkedIn and social media, talk about it with others, and let me know what they think!