In the latest instalment of our ongoing career pivot series, we talk to Lucy Sanderson-Gammon, a Wellington-based career coach who helps people know when to career pivot. Are women more likely to ask for help? What if your job is your identity? How can we stop people pleasing? And why are half of us at risk of burnout?
Post-pandemic, New Zealand still has a fairly tight job market, not helped by public-sector redundancies. Has there been a higher demand for career coaching, particularly career pivoting?There’s definitely more of a need for it. But with the wider economic situation, many people are also worried about their finances and maybe hesitant to spend money on themselves. If someone’s been made redundant though, it’s a scary time and it’s important to have professional support to get through it, and to make the most of the opportunity to consider the next steps.
Have you had clients who’ve been made redundant from public-sector jobs?
A few, and I’ve seen lots of people who are worried about it, and lots of people who have had people around them affected by it. The situation increases anxiety levels for people looking at making a career change. People are worried about the cost of living, and public-sector cuts are making people even more nervous. But I think the important thing is knowing what you can and can’t control. Worrying too much about things outside your control isn’t helpful for your wellbeing.
Tell me about your one-on-one coaching.
I hear the same stories from people about feeling stuck. They’re not sure they want to keep doing what they’re doing, but can’t picture an alternative. They’re lacking confidence. They’re going around in circles. So I’ve developed a structured six-session programme that helps people step back, reassess, clarify what matters most to them, and become more confident in their decision-making.
And you’ve just launched a ‘Career Refresh’ course?
Yes, it’s a self-directed online programme, with prerecorded videos of me, and exercises over five modules. It covers similar principles to my one-on-one sessions, but is more accessible if you can’t afford one-on-one coaching, or want to do it on your own timeframe.
Some people find the prospect of career coaching daunting. Is that more common with men?
Generally, women find it a bit easier to ask for help. About 70% of my clients are women. Some men become really burned out – or are finding things extremely difficult – before they’ll reach out. Fear affects people differently. Some people freeze, but it’s worth pushing past that fear. Even if people don’t recognise it, there’s an underlying fear about change and what it means to them and their identity.
Our careers can be a big part of our identities, right?
Changing your career can feel like an identity crisis! What’s the first thing anyone asks when you meet them in a social environment? It’s ‘what do you do for a living?’. So, many people think, ‘well, who am I if not my job?’. Yet we’re so much more than what we do for a living! I help people step back and think, ‘what matters most to me? What’s an environment I can thrive in?’. Knowing that helps people to better navigate a changing world of work and to spot good opportunities now and in the future – maybe jobs that haven’t been invented yet!
Do people have more transferable skills than they realise?
Absolutely! Often people can’t recognise their own skills and strengths. They assume that because certain things come easily to them, that everybody can do those things. I help people tease out not just what they’re capable of, but what they enjoy and feel energised by. Because people can fall into the trap of applying for a job just because they know they can do it. Or, early in a job, someone might show all that they’re capable of to prove themselves – but this might set them up to do more of the work that they might not enjoy.
How important is aligning your values with a career path?
Very. I’m always amazed at how powerful those conversations I have with people are. Even if you’re not aware of exactly what your values are, you still have them, and you’ll still feel if they’re out of alignment. For instance, when people leave a job without having another to go to, often there’s been a values clash.
What do you think leads to people feeling unhappy or burnt out in their jobs?
Operating on autopilot. Not feeling a sense of control. People often get promoted beyond the point at which they’re happy, or go along with what someone else thinks they should do. It’s easy to be swayed by other people’s ideas of what success is, so it’s about working out what success looks like for you. When you’re clear about what’s going to give you more joy and satisfaction, you’re more able to set healthy boundaries around your work life too.
It’s hard setting boundaries when you’re a people-pleaser, right?
That’s huge. People pleasing. Imposter syndrome. Perfectionism. I had a client who was completely burned out. Her identity was this person who always goes above and beyond, so to not be that person was quite scary for her. But when we talked about her core values, health and wellbeing, she saw that they came first.
Instead of telling herself, ‘I’m someone who always goes above and beyond’, it became ‘I’m someone who prioritises my well-being, so I’m going to say no to those extra hours’. I often say to clients ‘with everything you say yes to, you’re saying no to something else. What would you rather be doing?’.
The latest Massey University Wellbeing@Work research revealed that 57% of working New Zealanders are at a high risk of burnout – a record high. With burnout, do some people feel too stuck to even apply for another job?
Yes. People know something needs to change, but have less energy – and have the fear and anxiety that comes with having less confidence. If a workplace is dysfunctional, that exacerbates your lack of confidence. The longer you’re in an unhealthy work environment, the more your confidence is impacted, so it becomes a vicious cycle.
Often our brains, trying to be helpful, say ‘don’t change anything. Stay inside your comfort zone’. It’s amazing how people convince themselves that maybe it’s not so bad where they are. So it’s about knowing those fears are common, and knowing what your brain is trying to do.
Is there also a sunk cost fallacy?
Yes, another thing that keeps people stuck is worrying about ‘what if I waste everything that I’ve spent years doing’ – perhaps gaining qualifications and building your reputation. Also in the current economic climate, people may worry about not finding something that’s paid as well.
I can understand that!
Yes. But often people make assumptions about needing to keep earning what they’ve been earning. People often unnecessarily rule out things based on salary range. I have clients do a maths exercise: what’s the minimum you need to get by? It’s not saying that’s the amount you should aim to get, but it’s about knowing what your options are financially, rather than making assumptions.
So if you earn less than before, but you’re happier, maybe that’s a worthwhile trade-off?
Yes, especially if you earn a bit less to get you started in another direction. Then you might end up earning more.
Tell me about your own career pivot.
I originally trained as a journalist, then worked in government communications and corporate communications for years. I worked in internal communications, and on employee engagement and helping managers be better communicators. But it was full-on, doing long hours.
Now I recognise that dynamic in others. I help people to see that, instead of putting in excessive hours and striving as if they’re never enough, it’s healthier to come from a place of ‘I’m enough’ and have confidence to put reasonable boundaries in place.
You have a Diploma in Career Guidance with Distinction. Why pivot to career coaching?
I became self-employed in 2011, initially still doing communications consulting and contracting. But I wanted to do something different. Someone asked me ‘what would you do if you really thought you could make a success of it?’. That’s when I moved into career coaching. It was about helping individuals directly, rather than my previous work helping organisations to help employees.
Is your personal experience with a pivot helpful when talking to clients?
Yeah. And it helps that I’ve talked to so many people about their situations and can see commonalities. People ask themselves ‘Why am I so scared? Why am I so stuck? Why can’t I work this out myself?.’ It helps to know that other people have been where they are – and that they made a change.
