As we count down to the start of this year’s Netball World Cup later this week (I could NOT be more fizzed), we speak to the woman leading Netball New Zealand, Jennie Wyllie. Formerly the holder of NNZ’s purse strings as its head of finance, Jennie took up the helm during a turbulent period at the organisation – culminating in THAT Commonwealth Games shock fourth placing and the ensuing shakeup that saw the hiring of the now Dame Noeline Taurua as head coach – and the rest is history. In this chat we speak about the tough stuff, the cool stuff and the importance of trusting your gut when it comes to your career – and indeed life.
Capsule: Kia ora Jennie! How are you today?
Jennie: I’m well, thank you!
Was being a CEO always the dream and the end goal?
I grew up wanting to be Rita Fatialofa because she played both netball and softball! And she was this quiet, understated assassin and I wanted to be just like her. I didn’t grow up wanting to run a bank or anything, but I saw this woman and thought, ‘I want that’. I didn’t see them as mothers or wives – just awesome people doing amazing things. So no, I didn’t aspire to be a CEO.
My end goal has always been to do stuff that I love. I haven’t always done the stuff that I loved, but I kind of reached this maturity point in my own personal self where I was in a big corporate and I just really didn’t like the way that people were treated. Some really good people just weren’t there Monday. And for me, it just rubbed against my value set. Also, flogging boxes didn’t get me that excited!
I was a real introvert at school – I was super shy. I’m not sure where I found it along the way, but I also knew that you have to ask for what you want. I was at Telecom when [former CEO] Raelene Castle] got the role here and I said, ‘did you know, you’ve got the best job in the world… when you’re ready for me, let me know’. A year later she called me and asked if I wanted a cuppa – and that’s where it all started.
So what I’ve learnt is that there is no harm in going and asking for what you want.
Do you treat sport as a business?
Yes, sport is a business. It’s always been my approach – it’s not just where you get to go and have fun every day. You have to drive it like a business and make really, really good decisions. And there’s often harder decisions than what you’d have to make in the corporate world because your stakeholders are passionately vested in everything you do – which I love because they give a rats, but it brings a degree of pressure. Their voracity around their consuming is huge.
Sport is very different from the corporate world, where it can be a really cut-and-dried, ‘carve ‘em up’ type space. Sport brings nuances you never knew you needed to know! And sport in the context of New Zealand is really hard because there’s never enough to go around, so you just have to make do with what you’ve got. And I think netball is so strong in this area because we come from a place of strength – we don’t dwell on it. We just get on with it. We’ll make $1 give us $10 worth of value.
A lot of what you’ve just talked about – making $1 go to $10 and just getting on with it – are traditionally feminine traits. We know we’re strong at being resourceful and planning ahead, but conversely when you’re talking about netball as a business, there can also be a (stupid) perception that female-dominant sports aren’t as ‘good’ at the business and commercial elements as some of our more traditionally male-dominated. Do you think there is that perception, and does it annoy you?
Oh, I wholeheartedly disagree with netball not treating things like a business. From my perspective, everything is about making good business decisions. We’ve had growth in revenue over my time as CEO.
This is where the growth in women’s sport – they’re [other sports] are still trying to work out the longevity, rather than the initial flush. That’s one of our distinct advantages – we know that, just like the Pantene ad, that it’s not going to happen overnight. But it will happen. It’s built on legacy.
I’m very hot on the fact that Netball New Zealand is a well-run business that is financially astute and is still able to deliver to the same participation base of codes with $80, $90 million revenue lines – $200 million even – and we’re at five. The proof is in the pudding with what you’re doing at grassroots, how your brand holds up, and where you’re wisely investing time, energy and limited resource to maximise returns.
So yeah, being ‘too feminine’ – if you look at some of those policies is the new way of doing business, and therefore is a strength that we go first on. And we play to our strengths.
There’s been a real surge in appreciation for more ‘feminine’ energy in business for sure, with the likes of former Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern showing how you can have kindness and empathy while making bloody tough calls.
You’re absolutely right, running a business, running a country, there’s something different about the way female leaders lead. I think that’s why you see the governance quotas coming in because what the research is saying is that different voices, better decisions and improved results. There’s an increasing acceptance that a woman who is clear and can be trusted in her decision making, doesn’t mean she’s a complete bitch. It just means that she’s informed – and she’s probably actually listened to the room – and is going to make the best decision.
Has netball always been your ‘thing’?
Yup. I played in standard one and netball wasn’t even offered to kids that young, but I pleaded and pleaded my mum. I must have irritated the bejesus out of her, especially when she started coaching when I was in standard two. I finally got to play in standard three.
I’m a netball tragic. Back when I was a kid netball was everything, and some of my best friends are the kids I played netball with. And they’ll always remain that way. I’ve never fallen out of love with netball.
It’s pretty great that you get to do the thing you love as a job – it’s the dream for so many people.
I want it to be everyone’s dream. I want everyone involved in sport because what it gives back to you is so much more than you could ever put in yourself. It’s a truly special place to be able to spend your days.
There’s been a huge surge of interest and support in women’s sport over the last few years, especially with the Black Ferns’ epic World Cup win last year and the country in the grips of football fever right now. Obviously it’s fantastic but is this a help or hindrance to netball in the sense of coverage and participation in other codes?
A high tide rises all boats. We’ve seen our participation bounce back after Covid, so that reinforces that the unique aspects of our game still hold true. I love that young women are seeing more opportunities for themselves and I think that it’s also bringing out the competitiveness in us – not against other codes, but that we’re able to deliver the best product and experience. There’s room enough for everyone on the dance floor.
When you came on board as CEO, NNZ were going through a bit of a transition time…
That’s a good way to phrase that!
Ah look, I try! But it was a goodbye to an older way of thinking and coming into a new way of doing things. When you took the job, did you come in knowing that you wanted to change the way the business was run, and did you have a vision?
I came in around 2016, and in 2017, just at the Silver Ferns level the performances were kind of as we expected [Former coach Janine Southby has been appointed in controversial circumstances prior to Jennie’s own appointment]. I remember going in six months before the Commonwealth Games into the Ferns environment and I went, ‘hmmm. I’m not sure – there’s something bothering me’. And we went into those Games, and it was one of our worst performances of all time. That was a real eye opener. Things were kind of ticking along, and then boom. It wasn’t [The Silver Ferns finished fourth, the worst loss we’ve had on the world stage]. And that was a chance to step into the decisions of myself. But that was a defining moment for me.
I could either go, ‘gee, what did I get myself in to?’ or I could stand up and say, ‘I don’t know what I’m going to do. But I know I’m going to do something – but it’s going to be different’. At the time, lots of people had lots of opinions. But I knew we couldn’t have another instance like this. We had the review and there wasn’t one defining thing, but I knew that everything I did after that would define us.
With Noeline it was about repairing a fractured relationship. And then it was about trying something that had never been done – having a Silver Ferns coach that wasn’t actually in the country, and she already had a job coaching the Lightning in Australia. I talked to some people I really trust and they said, ‘don’t do it. That is suicide, you’ll fail’. I just said, ‘but what if it does work?’.
Trusting your gut is such a massive part of running a business!
You have to trust your gut. It’s a sign of your maturity, your own personal awareness. For me, it’s a lot of gut. I think a measure of a good leader, irrespective of title, is the ability to predict the future. What I learnt through all of this, at six months out, I knew something wasn’t right. What I now know is that you have to trust your gut. If it doesn’t sit right, you should ask the next question.
I know your job is massive, but where is your happy place when you’re not working?
My husband and I were in London together years ago and we always said, even if we can’t afford a house in Auckland, we’re going to have a little bach. So we go north and we have a place at the beach and it’s amazing. That’s where I go to remember what is really important.
Do you still play netball yourself?
Yeah we still have a social team and it really shows that no matter what level you’re at, you still think it’s competitive! We love a bit of summer league. It’s awesome – but can I do what I used to do? No! It’s all there in the mind but the body just won’t go there!
I guess being a CEO is a bit like being a centre isn’t it – you’ve got your middle channel and everyone feeding off you, you give the ball to the shooter and let them have the glory, and then you’ve got your defenders down the back making sure shit doesn’t hit the fan!
You’re totally right, you’re the one that just runs up and down checking on everyone else! You’ve got people who have your back, and then you have the glory girls up the front. And if you’re pushing too far up the court, and you’re not where you’re needed, you’re in trouble. It’s literally ‘here if you need’!
